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www.undertowsoftware.com • View topic - Using TLDCN11 trips

Using TLDCN11 trips

Discussion and information about RV Plan 'N' Go 2013, the RV Trip Planning program from UnderTow

Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby twindman » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:08 pm

I loaded a 2011 trip into the new RVPNG program. The overnite park stops show up, but in many cases do not match the coordinates of the new icons.
For example, the Sea N Sand RV park in Depoe Bay, Or has a gps location of -124.039262°, 44.860829° in the new program but in the old program it is -124.038310°, 44.861083°. Is there a way to easily convert these locations? Otherwise, the feature of using old trips is pretty worthless. I even had one stretch going into Tok, AK where the drawing feature of the map had the leg of the trip running about a block off the highway - just parallel.
Suggestions?
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby mrhagen » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:44 pm

Wow! It's bad enough that they don't have all the details. If the locations of the Parks are not correct either, in the new release, what's left?
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby IanRoth » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:36 pm

It looks to me like the "new" location is correct and the "old" location was bad. So, if you created your trip with the old program and it had saved the old location that's where it's going to bring you! The trip calculation is based on coordinates, not the name of the point. At first I thought that may be undertow should have created some import function for the old trips, where the name of the park would be detected upon load and the new location would be obtained and assigned to it, but then I remember that we have the option to change those point names, so it would be impossible for them to know, for example, what point I was referring to if I had changed the point's name in my trip to "Sea -N- Sand RV Park". So, it makes sense that it has to go by the Lat/Lon stored in the trip file for that point.

Unless we wanted them to keep using the old, incorrect coordinates that were used in the Navigator, so that the files would be compatible :-)

twindman wrote: I even had one stretch going into Tok, AK where the drawing feature of the map had the leg of the trip running about a block off the highway - just parallel.


Can you give some more detail about this? I definitely wouldn't want to see this happening :-(
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby mrhagen » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:16 pm

IanRoth wrote:Unless we wanted them to keep using the old, incorrect coordinates that were used in the Navigator, so that the files would be compatible

Ianroth, how did you determine that the "old" location was bad? It could be the new locations in their data are bad, in addition to all the other problems they have! Don't be so quick to support the company and always blame the user, or some external factor!
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby artmart » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:52 pm

I am finding this too, but in a good way. There is a CG I often frequent. The old TL software showed the CG on the outside of the Park (different coordinates) because the details of roads in the park were not available. Now the CGs are very accurate because the interior roads for the location are now available for trip planning. Unfortunately there are still other locations that do not have this details.

The bad news is that not all the interior roads are available to the public so one must create exclusions or add waypoints to get it routed correctly but one can only do this if you are familiar with the area. Since we are having a family gathering there, I can distribute this very accurate information, but guess what?! Half the recipients can't read a map to save their life and I'm still gonna get "I'm lost" phone calls. I miss the days when we didn't have cell phones and the person had to FIGURE OUT how to get there.

We will never get perfection, and all of us will never be happy, but I understand this possibility and know how to adjust for it - everyone else just whines about it. :D
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby jimwelch » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:52 am

Art, post the info here so we can try and use it too. So, you might get a few complaints, so what? Just don't post your cell phone number :-)
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby artmart » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:50 am

I was referring to the map detail. Not sure what information you want me to post, but many campgrounds have more than they use to, while anything from TL have had information removed since the business partnership no longer exists.

The example for more detail was that the old RTN version had barely visible dashed lines for the roads within the recreation area (Lake Skinner, Riverside county, California) and these could not be part of a Trip Plan for routing purposes - The road got to the entry gate, then no routing after that, even though the Ranger station was some distance into the Park and on to the CG.

Now the latest version the dashed lines have been replaced with actual roads that you can route to a waypoint in the recreation area. I know the park well and where the campgrounds are located so I can get to within a few feet of where I plan to set up my rig. Couldn't do that before. The bad news is that there are so many roads, not available to the public and only for the Rangers these are often including in the routing and shouldn't be. Can't blame UnderTow for that. And even if you wanted to blame "Tele-Atlas" for providing the information, someone could have given them the wrong stuff as well. It's virtually impossible to keep up with all roads in the USA so use the tool with some sense and don't expect perfection.
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby twindman » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:35 pm

Apparently the road in Tok has shifted about 150-200 feet!! :D I loaded my 2010 trip (built on the Trailer life 2009 version into my 2011 version and the route is off the road there too. And after checking the coordinates in 2011 version vs the RVPNG program, they are off.
I assume the maps have changed slightly somewhere along the line.
I am going to contact undertow and see if they would give me a function or something that can read the CG files and access the gps info somehow. I was a programmer for 37 years and think I coud whip up a utility to sort of search the files for the CG name (or something similar) and extract the gps coords. Worth a shot.
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby artmart » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:05 pm

FYI - UnderTow gets their map information from Tele-Atlas Multinet (TAM). If the map is wrong it's probably wrong from them. BUT... how do you know that it is not incorrect. Maybe the old version was incorrect.

I am finding lots of slight differences in roads, CGs and POI positions on RVPNG2013. Since this is a newer release I would hope the data from TAM would be pretty good. I don't know what's correct and wouldn't worry about it too much until I start tracking using a GPS device against the RVPNG2013 map display. I'm guessing it's gonna be fine.
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby twindman » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:41 pm

Actually my last point was meant to point out that the maps apparently are different in 2009 VS 2011 VS 2013. Not sure what anyone can do about that - including Undertow.
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Re: Using TLDCN11 trips

Postby paulct » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:26 am

twindman wrote:Apparently the road in Tok has shifted about 150-200 feet!! I loaded my 2010 trip (built on the Trailer life 2009 version into my 2011 version and the route is off the road there too. And after checking the coordinates in 2011 version vs the RVPNG program, they are off. I assume the maps have changed slightly somewhere along the line.

Yeah, it must be those tectonic plates shifting around and moving the roads :-) Seriously though, I'm sure that the accuracy of the road data changes, and it's supposed to bet better. In this case, I don't know how one defines "better", what do you compare it to? May be if the shift is less that a football's field length, it's better? ;-)

twindman wrote:I am going to contact undertow and see if they would give me a function or something that can read the CG files and access the gps info somehow. I was a programmer for 37 years and think I coud whip up a utility to sort of search the files for the CG name (or something similar) and extract the gps coords. Worth a shot.

It'll be interesting to see what their response is. I haven't done 37 years of programming, but have done enough to realize that doing something like that might not be very smart on their part - they may be opening pandora's box. And, if park names are not really the same, or very close to the old ones, your job wouldn't be simple, either. Anyway, if you don't mind posting it here, I'm really interested to hear their response.
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