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www.undertowsoftware.com • View topic - Why the large download?

Why the large download?

Discussion and information about RV Plan 'N' Go 2013, the RV Trip Planning program from UnderTow

Why the large download?

Postby GoodwinR » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:57 pm

I just realized that to update the program I have to download a file ~700 Mb. Why is that? Why do they have to release such a large file for an update? Even on my DSL connection it will take a while for me to download the file. That's absurd.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby artmart » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:31 am

There must be a lot of fixes... most times if the database containing a whole bunch of new campgrounds and their information, the whole thing gets reloaded and installed. That might explain the size, but from installing updates for many things it's been my recent experience that 700MB is considered medium sized. Small is anything less than 500MB and large is considered anything over 1GB. Then of course I've downloaded brand new software that can be upwards and over 10GB. I only download these because I have a pretty fast link. Otherwise I purchase CDs or DVDs. RARELY are updates distributed by DVD. They are usually downloads of some kind.

A lot of people will start a download late at night, then go to sleep. It should then be waiting for them in the morning.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby artmart » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:21 am

I finally finished this download. It was a biggy. It took a little over 40 minutes to download, then about 5 minutes to install. WOW!!!

Here's the about page:

rvpng2013 version 60.JPG
rvpng2013 version 60.JPG (61.54 KiB) Viewed 10540 times


I don't know what's in it, but I'll bet there's lots of new campgrounds and their information.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby artmart » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:25 pm

Wow, that was almost painful. I finally finished updating my laptop with the .60 version of the RVPNG2013 and this took a LOT longer - it had the older patched .50 version. The laptop was connected via wireless and the 677MB file took over 2 hours to download but still about 5 minutes for the install. Next time I'll use a wire to connect to the router so the download takes less time (don't recommend wireless). As noted previously, my direct connect desktop took about 40 minutes for the download and 5 minutes for the install.

Since I have a good understanding of what affects downloads (direct wire is 2Mbps rate, 54Mbps wireless is about 20Kbps rate at my house) I was able to fix breakfast, wash and dry my dog, take a shower and get ready for the grandkids to come over for a visit (we just bought a bicycle for the 4 yr old - my wife got training wheels and I hate those things because then it will take longer for him to learn how to ride properly).

I can relate to GoodwinR's pain now, but I've done large downloads on a slow link before and while I can understand these will take a while, just do other things in the meantime and monitor the download until it finishes. The file is 677MB, I don't know if the file was compressed or not, but everyone should expect this to take a while. This only means that you might have to add decompression time during the install but I didn't notice anything significant not as if it matters. In all my years dealing with UnderTow updates (since 2008) I don't remember a slower download. But be patient and it should work otherwise post your problem in the forum or send a note to UnderTow Software tech support at support@undertowsoftware.com.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Don Bryer » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:18 pm

I asked undertow yesterday what were the changes and here is the response I received.

There have been many changes made to the new updated release of the program (13.01.01.60). Here is a brief description of some of the main ones…

- Travel/Routing on Toll Roads is now not permitted if the user selects that option
- Travel/Routing on Parkways is now not permitted, if the user selects that option
- Travel/Routing on roads that are on military areas, to get to military campgrounds, is now permitted
- Incorporated >100 corrections and additions to campgrounds reported by users
- Corrected a problem that would make the highways disappear from the map at about 2-3 mi scale, in certain areas
- Corrected a problem that would replace the name of some campgrounds with the city at that location, when highlighting the campground
- Added details about RV sites, amenities etc. 1000+ campgrounds (we still continue to add more details)
- Corrected an error that would display the city/state of user-defined campground, in the trip planner, instead of the specified campground name.
- Corrected data problems that would not permit routing in the Florida keys area
- Corrected data problems that would sometimes cause routing to places in Alaska
- Added command line option to ensure that some GPS devices, on older systems, would not go to sleep mode when power was cycled (File, Program Options, Other options enter /GPSPWR in the "Start-up Switches area).
- Corrected an error that would not permit trips to NF to use ferry lines, as expected.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Don Bryer » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:26 pm

artmart wrote:Wow, that was almost painful. I finally finished updating my laptop with the .60 version of the RVPNG2013 and this took a LOT longer - it had the older patched .50 version. The laptop was connected via wireless and the 677MB file took over 2 hours to download but still about 5 minutes for the install. Next time I'll use a wire to connect to the router so the download takes less time (don't recommend wireless). As noted previously, my direct connect desktop took about 40 minutes for the download and 5 minutes for the install.

Two hours! Wow! I am using a wireless connection, as well, and I downloaded the update in about 16 minutes. And, about 3 minutes to install. You must have a fairly old wireless/system, or something. I'm saying that because my system is 3+ yrs old and my wireless router is even older, and it's pretty fast. The wireless is 802.11n and the wired port on my laptop is 1 Gb.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Rimingianni » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:45 pm

Don Bryer, a couple of things. First, I think you should post your message with what was changed in its own message thread, so people can see it easily. Second, not all of us have the latest computers and wifi. When a company releases a program or an update, it should take that into consideration. Some are still using computers running Windows XP!
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Skataila » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:31 am

I saw someone said you don't have to download it, in another message. That's true, but it also means you have to put up with the annoying message that notifies you of the update, every time you start the program, which in my case is many times a day.

On the other hand, having worked in software for a few years, in the past, I know first hand how tough a decision it is for a company to release an update that may require a long download time, or just release an update that takes care of a few things and simply use the file size as an excuse to not include certain other fixes. I remember long production meetings where each side argued for one or the other approach. It used to be even a tougher decision then, when downloading a 5-10 Mb file was considered a feat for most users. Most companies, in those days, would also give the user the option to order the update on disk for a small fee (to recover the cost of the disk and s&h).
"He who has a why to live can bear almost any how" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby JayWild » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:52 pm

Skataila, I'd probably pay a few dollars (reasonable) to have a disk with the latest version sent to me, instead of having to try at least 10 times, so far, without being able to download the update. It starts, goes through the process for about 5 minutes and then I get an error that there is a network problem and it aborts. However, I don't see such an option on their web site. Do you know if they have an option to purchase the new disk for a nominal cost?
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby artmart » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:19 am

They probably got rid of that option when someone else whined that they lost their old CDs and wanted replacements for free or on updates that were too old. Making it a downloadable update relieves UnderTow of that problem. Making media can be expensive to inventory. Remember, this software is still $39 and you gotta keep your costs low.

I wonder if you called them and asked for it on a DVD (it might be to big for one CD), they might send it to you (at some cost, plus S/H)? Otherwise you'll have to beg one of us to download it, copy it to DVD, then mail it to you if you think that would be faster than downloading it.

Don Bryer, yes, the two hour download was on a very old laptop with very old wireless (probably 54Mb, 802.11g) . My desktop only took 40 minutes and it's a direct wire (100Mb). I use the slowest Verizon FIOS speed offered and my wife was doing her thing on her laptop which also slowed things down. Please have a little compassion for others who have older computers, more people on the network and slower links. :D
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby JayWild » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:40 am

Well, last night I tried it one more time, on a different system, and it downloaded (about 12 min) and installed without a problem. Go figure. I still think an option to purchase the update on a disk for a fee would be good and would eliminate lots of problems for us users.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby RWinlow » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:08 am

artmart wrote:I wonder if you called them and asked for it on a DVD (it might be to big for one CD), they might send it to you (at some cost, plus S/H)? Otherwise you'll have to beg one of us to download it, copy it to DVD, then mail it to you if you think that would be faster than downloading it.

Art, here is what undertow replied, when I asked them about this yesterday (I am posting my email and their response). I guess the likelyhood of making such an update disk available is not very high. It could be that if a lot of users on these forum email/call them asking for such an option, there might be a chance of seeing it. As i mentioned in my email to them, I wouldn't mind paying something (less than $10) for it to cover their cost of manufacturing and s&h, but from their response, I am not sure that cost is the driving force to their decision.

From: Rob Winlow
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Undertow Support
Subject: Update on Disk?

One more question I wanted to ask. If I don't want to download these large updates, is it possible to order them on disk from you? I wouldn't even mind paying a reasonable fee for it, but I haven't seen such an option on your web site.


From: Undertow Support [mailto:support@undertowsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:01 AM
To: 'Rob Winlow'
Subject: RE: Update on Disk?

There is no such “disk” update available at this point, but we will bring this up at our next tech support meeting to see if it’s possible to implement it. I have to say, though, that based on my experience, there is no big demand for something like that and implementing it for just a few users would not be very feasible.

Support
--
UnderTow Software Corp.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby EdWhite » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:22 am

Just wondering, is it O.K. to post complete email messages, like that, in public? Aren't these supposed to be private?
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby artmart » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:04 pm

I don't believe posting a company's policy communications is bad. If YOU had a personal issue and they replied to YOUR personal issue, then that's probably inappropriate. In this case, many are having issues with the size and frequency of the update, so I don't see a problem.

I don't blame UnderTow for their response. When you buy the software they promised at least 3 free upgrades and charging you something would go against that policy.

So you folks with the horrible connections that would rather have media for the update, better start begging others to make and mail a copy for you. The cost would be a blank DVD, a protective shipper and shipping costs. And now you know why UnderTow would be reluctant for this. This is what they do for their software releases that they sell for a discount $39 and we want the update free when there's a way to download free already? Pretty much all the companies I now deal with operate this way, except in many of their cases, they don't even provide media for the software purchase... that's gets downloaded, too.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Molaker » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:55 pm

I don't think the long download times are due to individual Internet connections so much as to undertow's server/ISP. I'm downloading the latest update now and it has taken nearly 30 minutes so far. I'm on 20mb cable service. While downloading, I can access other sites and any data I download from them - while still downloading the update - is about as fast as ever.
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Don Bryer » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:02 pm

Hmm,... As I had posted before, it took me about 16 min to download the large update, but based on your message I just re-downloaded it and it actually took slightly over 14 minutes to download it to my laptop, connected through my wifi router! Just for kicks, I then also downloaded it to my Vista desktop, connected by cable to the router and it took about 28 minutes to download. I am presuming that both times I was connecting to the same Undertow ISP servers (I didn't do anything different), so I am not so sure it's the server(s).
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Re: Why the large download?

Postby Camper22 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:48 am

It took 00:15:23 to download it here, this morning, using a Verizon FIOS connection.
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