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www.undertowsoftware.com • View topic - Delete exclusions

Delete exclusions

A discussion area for users of RTN2012, TLDCN2011, TLDCN2010, TLDC2009, TLDCN2008, TLDCN2007 & TLDCN2006

Delete exclusions

Postby billrot » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:01 am

I have created two dozen or so routing exclusions to avoid areas I know are problematic when driving SouthWest. I have a couple of questions.

(a) How do delete "some" of these rectangles - I don't want to clear them all, just some of them. I haven't been able to find a way to do that, and I've looked at every page of the help file (I actually printed it all).

(b) Is it possible to share there exclusion areas with friends of mine that are using TLDCN? What file are they stored in?
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby artmart » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:09 pm

I don't think you can distinctly remove one or more exclusions. My experience is that you can keeping adding one at a time, but clearing them out means you clear out all of them.

You might try a note using support links and requesting this feature.
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby Kevin_T » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:12 pm

billrot wrote:I have created two dozen or so routing exclusions to avoid areas I know are problematic when driving SouthWest. I have a couple of questions.

(a) How do delete "some" of these rectangles - I don't want to clear them all, just some of them. I haven't been able to find a way to do that, and I've looked at every page of the help file (I actually printed it all).

(b) Is it possible to share there exclusion areas with friends of mine that are using TLDCN? What file are they stored in?

Well, I'm almost sure this is NOT sanctioned by UnderTow and any questions about it to them, will most probably go unanswered, but I'm the type of person that likes to look *into* things.

So, by chance, I realized that restrictions are saved between sessions of TLDCN2010 and a copy of them is also saved with any trip file that is saved while these restrictions are defined. So, I started pruying around the trip files saved on my system (they are plain text files, for the most part). I can't claim to understand all the info in them, but by trial and error, I found that the restrictions are saved in the lines that start with "RSR=".

Also, by the process of elimination, I found that I could create a trip file that has nothing BUT defined restriction in it by using just a couple of lines from their trip file format (you may not even need all of these that I use, I am not sure). But I found that if I created 3 restrictions and then save a (blank) trip file to MyRestrictions.trp, then I could edit the MyRestrictions.trp file with a text editor, and remove all the lines *but* the ones shown below:

OBJECT=MULTI
NAM=myrestrictions.trp
RSR=-73950463,45097859,-71721415,43695447
RSR=-84877216,44657091,-81677154,40467495
RSR=-78383886,43981350,-76209087,38197004
END

Then, if I opened this trip file (a) any restrictions I had currently defined in the program would be cleared and (b) the three restritions I had saved with the trip file would appear on the map.

Of cource, once I figured that out, I created many blank trip files, each containing different sets of restrictions and called them, AvoidAtlanta.trp, ByPassNY.trp, etc. so if I want to use a specific set of restrictions for a trip, I first load one of the restrictions (fake) trip files and then plan my trip and save it under my real trip name.

Furthermore, if I want to eliminate a restriction from a set, I can just edit the file and delete the "RSR=" line the corresponds to it, though that can get a bit tricky because I kneed to know the coordinates of the rectangle, since it appears that the "RSR=" lines contain the rectangle coordinates multiplied by 1000000.

Anyway, this may not be something everyone wants to do, but it doesn't do any harm, so you may want to give it a try.

I think this also answers your second question, since if you use this work-around, you can send these (fake) trip files to your friends and they can use the same method to load these restrictions.
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby artmart » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:04 pm

Very clever Kevin!!!

I hope Undertow reads this and sends it to Trailer Life so they will request Undertow to add a feature to delete specific routes as a new feature in their software. Have you made this request? anyone?

Fortunately my list of exclusions is small so putting them back in where necessary is easy. But as I start making more trips, this feature would be nice.

All this editing of files and I know I would mess something up. A good "point and click" solution would be a better way to go.
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby Kevin_T » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:03 pm

A "one-click-solution" would be my preference, too, art. However, I've involved with these "0 or 1" dumb boxes long enough to know that no matter what feature a company puts in a software package, there will always be something that I want to do that cannot be done without hacking some of their files. And, since such hacking is not damaging anything, or violating any of their copyrights, I'll always be messing with them. Plus, it makes me understand how these programs work a bit better. I do this with most apps on my system. What can I say, I'm one of those yesteryear hackers, when "hacker" had a good connotation, i.e., trying to always figure out the inner workings of things :-)
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby artmart » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:40 am

Back then we called it reverse-engineering - trying to figure out how something works to make it better to use for ourselves. Hackers tend to be more malicious. In order to understand how some of this software works a little reverse engineering analysis is needed. Just keep it to yourself or provide the information to Undertow so they can improve THEIR products for EVERYONE's benefit.

Anyone who tries to gain from their reverse engineering efforts is called a hacker or pirate and this is what's illegal.

I hope posting hints and discoveries in this forums will be construed as beneficial. I have a feeling some forum entries certainly get Undertow to improve their products.
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby Kevin_T » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:37 pm

artmart wrote:Back then we called it reverse-engineering - trying to figure out how something works to make it better to use for ourselves. Hackers tend to be more malicious. In order to understand how some of this software works a little reverse engineering analysis is needed. Just keep it to yourself or provide the information to Undertow so they can improve THEIR products for EVERYONE's benefit.

Anyone who tries to gain from their reverse engineering efforts is called a hacker or pirate and this is what's illegal.

I hope posting hints and discoveries in this forums will be construed as beneficial. I have a feeling some forum entries certainly get Undertow to improve their products.

Ha, ha, ha,... you must be fairly young, if back then you called reverse engineering :-) The first Hacker groups I joined were for people who *just* got their Altairs. And, back then, we did call them Hackers (only it didn't have the bad connotation it has today). We were hackers because we were hacking at the software/hardware, trying to figure out what it did with minimal documentation (if any), none of the debugging tools available today and NO formal computer training/knowledge (save for the occasional article in Popular Electronics). That's what "hacker" used to mean, one of the few things wikipedia got right... :-)

In home computing, a hacker is a person who heavily modifies the software or hardware of their own computer system. It includes building, rebuilding, modifying, and creating software (software cracking, demo scene) or electronic hardware (hardware hacking, modding), either to make it better, faster, to give it added features or to make it do something it was never intended to do. Hobby home computer hacking originated around the MITS Altair.

Furthermore, I am not reverse engineering anything (there was no binary disassembling that took place), I am just reading plain text files and trying to make sense of them. As for anyone gaining from it, if you mean monetary gain, nobody is - certainly not me :0(

And, if posts in these forums make Undertow add more features, that's great. But that won't stop me from trying to understand what's in those files that exist on my system. I have this built-in need to understand.
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby artmart » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:01 pm

LOL, Kevin_T, you will really find it ironic when you I reveal I worked for the MITS-Altair company years ago after Ed Roberts and his pals sold it to the company I worked for. Us nice guys like to reverse-engineer and the more careless ones were hackers. I worked for them after being in the industry for some number of years, so I guess I might be a little older than you think. I actually moved to their facility in Albuquerque to work as an attempt to try and use their technology in the business world. Unfortunately, it turned into a bad idea and we closed their doors within 18 months and I was one of the lucky 40 out of 250 people who kept our jobs buy were sent back to the home company in California. The rest of MITS Altair disappeared into the history books. Admittedly it was my company that really didn't know what to do with MITS-Altair that caused the shutdown. Unfortunately we were way too far behind to be competitive in what eventually became the single-user PC/MAC market. But I digress.

The difference is that a hacker has now become a "bad" reference to represent malicious activities, however what you are doing is reverse-engineering (it's more than just binary diassembly these days). The term comes from hacking away at it until you find what you need. I realize that reverse engineering doesn't sound near as romantic but feel free to call yourself whatever you'd like. If you destroy things or become malicious with what you find, then you remain a hacker and what the world now thinks of them. But you are reverse engineering if you maintain benevolence, being helpful and not taking advantage of what you find at someone else's expense. To this day I "hack away" until I find what but need and I shall always keep my engineering mindset. You do need a hacker's mentality to successfully reverse engineer. My mom used to call me a good problem and puzzle solver, but it's really the basis for "hacking".

I guess it must have worked since I earned an MVP status in this forum. I do the same for friends and family but they don't even give me so much as a gold star on my forehead.... :lol: They just like to give me a beer or food - and I am too old to medically enjoy either now. But I have always been glad to help as much as I can.
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby Kevin_T » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:48 pm

Art, you win. Your war story is better than mine :-) As for the MVP status, nobody asked me, but I think that it was well deserved for your contributions on this board!
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Re: Delete exclusions

Postby artmart » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:40 am

Thank you. You are very kind...
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